Clinician Spotlight: Matt Fishman
Internal Family Systems SM (IFS) therapy, developed by Richard Schwartz Ph.D., is more than just a method — it is a paradigm-shifting approach for deeply understanding and appreciating every part of ourselves. The IFS framework encourages a gentle inquiry that allows us to understand ourselves, our families, and our world in a new and holistic way.
The IFS Telehealth Collective is delighted to introduce you to Matt Fishman, a member of our New York team now accepting clients for Online IFS therapy. We had the opportunity to talk with Matt about his love of music, parallel parking skills, and how discovering IFS pivoted his whole approach to therapy!
Q: What drew you to IFS therapy?
MF: In college I was interested in and studied psychology. I was drawn to the idea of becoming a therapist but questioned how I could actually do that. I ended up spending most of my time in introspective practices and learning about the mental health space, absorbing all of the information I could.
I spent a couple of years doing mental health research, interviewing people, and learning about environmental and systemic risk factors. I didn't love research but I loved working with people. I felt that while research was helping people in the future via studying those in the present, I wanted to help people and make an impact in the present day.
Becoming a therapist was a semi-career switch. After college, I was a waiter at a restaurant and played music during the day. I then worked in media as a program manager. During this time, I became very interested in Buddhism. It was a profound transformation to the way that I understood my own life and what being human is about. Through meditation, introspection, and mindfulness, I shifted my world view, sense of self, and what was possible in day to day experience.
Once I went back to graduate school, I began to realize that the mainstream way that we approach mental health is backwards. Working in both intensive outpatient and inpatient psychiatric settings, I noticed high burn-out and a culture of pathologization.
I discovered IFS while working in these settings. It felt integrative, holistic, non-pathologizing and an approach to understanding human suffering that made more sense to me than our current medical model. I found myself tearing into books, podcasts, videos, etc. I realized the basic assumptions of IFS worked for those across the spectrum of psychological distress, from the everyday to the most extreme. Witnessing this pivoted my whole approach to therapy, shifting towards parts work and gaining a toolkit that offers more than I ever thought would be possible.
Q: What is one of your favorite moments with IFS as a therapy tool?
MF: There is one that comes to mind that is very vivid. I was working with someone who had a really difficult time forgiving themselves for something they did years prior. The inner critic continued to remind them of how bad they were, with an inability to forgive themselves. While using the IFS lens, I was able to help them see that there is a part of them that couldn't forgive, that has a strong resistance to self-forgiveness. By naming that, allowing it, and asking the question, “what is that part afraid that would happen if you were to forgive yourself?”, it allowed for compassion and deeper understanding. The fear was that if they forgave themself, that they would act that way again. Hearing this from the part, that the reason was protective, allowed room for curiosity for that part. Asking that critic if a decade of suffering was enough time for punishment, if it would be willing to forgive, and hearing from the client’s Self that they would not act that way again even if they forgave themselves, was a breakthrough for this person.
This idea of why we can't forgive ourselves, and then seeing someone’s inner system go from knowing about that intellectually to actually experiencing it in their body for the first time was so rewarding. They may have known this intellectually before, but it feels like the first time when coming from a client’s Self.
Q: What is your favorite analogy for describing IFS that seems to be helpful with clients?
MF: I created an analogy - still a work in progress- while doing group work. I feel it's a beautiful representation of individual and collective healing.
Sitting all together in the room, I expressed the awareness that we are all holding on to something, a weight, that holds us down. We may think that when we share that weight, we will weigh the room down. In actuality, when we share our weight in the room (and/or with a trusted individual), each person gets to put a finger and hold the weight. Sharing doesn't weigh them down in return, it lifts them up a bit from their weight, and the isolation of struggling alone. Collectively we are getting relief from our own weights when we are there for others, while also having compassion and lifting some of another’s.
Q: How might clients describe their work with you?
MF: Clients have said they feel my compassion. They find it easy to foster a sense of trust in me. Clients feel supported with my curiosity, while not feeling judged. They experience me as candid and honest, while also providing access to feelings of hope. They appreciate my ability to incorporate humor when it’s appropriate.
Q: What drew you to Buddhist psychology?
MF: The gift of Buddhism was that it taught me I didn't have to rely on the conditions of life to change in order to feel at peace. Buddhist psychology teaches that we don't have to wait around for things out of our control to happen in order to feel okay. For me it busted the myth that I needed to wait for some elusive future moment to be fully engaged in life rather than using this present one. I was completely at the whim of the conditions of my life until I discovered these teachings. I had no idea that I could pause and observe what was happening without judgment about what was going on. It was another simple understanding that once practiced and experienced first hand, was completely transformative. It has been integral to me and my path.
Q: What is a favorite quote or poem?
MF: I have a few:
“Admire those who seek the truth but flee from those who claim they've found it” - Christopher Ryan
“There is a huge difference between knowing about something and knowing it through your own experience.” - Irvin Yalom
“It's never too late to have a happy childhood.” - Tom Robbins
Q: Would you like to give a shout-out to any parts of your internal system?
MF: I think I have a part, maybe it's more just self energy, that really feels anybody can feel hopeful and grateful again for their life, no matter what has happened to them. Additionally, I found IFS due to a part with an insatiable desire to learn, absorb, and go full throttle when I am passionate. This part did that with IFS, music, and physical movement. I'm definitely grateful for that.
Q: If you weren’t a therapist, what would you be?
MF: I’d love to teach music to kids! I also love restaurants and hospitality and could see myself owning or managing a restaurant.
Q: Outside of being a therapist, what do you enjoy doing?
MF: I am passionate about physical exercise and love fostering a mind-body connection. My pandemic goal was to be able to do a split (took longer than expected!) Additionally, I love reading books, listening to podcasts and playing drums and piano. Oh! And I pride myself on being the best parallel parker in NYC.
Does Matt Fishman sound like the right therapist to guide you on your journey? If you are based in New York, contact our Client Care Coordinator or call 503-447-3244 to schedule a consultation.
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