INTERVIEW: Mariel Pastor
“I describe IFS to people as deep listening. I tell them, ‘I’m going to show you how we can find answers inside if we listen differently’.
We will work out the conflicts that you have and release whatever weighs you down. You’ll feel freer to choose what feels right to you, to be more creative, confident and inspired.”
Mariel Pastor is a licensed marriage and family therapist and supervisor based in Portland, Oregon. For the past 14 years, she has served as an IFS Trainer across the U.S. and internationally, and has studied closely with IFS developer Richard Schwartz since 1998. Some of her contributions to the model include authoring the Unburdened Internal System mandala and the official IFS Level 1 training manual.
Mariel is Co-founder and Clinical Director of the IFS-TC team.
Get to know more of Mariel’s story, and what she envisions for the Collective!
Was there a single, defining moment that drew you to the treatment of mental health?
Mariel: I spent many years in the music business, and although I had a thriving career, I found that working in entertainment was calling forth qualities in me I didn't want anymore.
The more I got promoted I knew something needed to change - I didn't like who I was becoming. In IFS terms, my truest Self was buried while I worked in Hollywood. Eventually, the industry drove me into therapy, and it was my therapist who suggested I’d be good at this work instead. So I have her to thank!
What I learned in therapy was to not let my authentic self be buried. As soon as I got in line with that, everything fell into place. When I made the switch to graduate school, I could feel it in my bones that the decision was right. I immediately started sleeping better at night.
What led you to want to study Marriage and Family Therapy?
Mariel: It was by chance, really, and I just got lucky. I went to school in the place where I got therapy. I really just took the leap and didn’t do any research, which could’ve been disastrous. I landed in the MFT program at Phillips Graduate Institute outside Los Angeles. I'm really grateful that I studied systemic approaches because that's naturally how my mind has always worked. I think the universe was looking out for me.
If I look back now at the different programs out there, where I landed is what I would have chosen in the end. And it happened to be an MFT program.
What’s the story about how you found Internal Family Systems (IFS)?
Mariel: When I was at Phillips, Richard Schwartz had just started to write a little bit about IFS. He was a family therapy historian and skilled therapist who wrote or co-wrote some of the foundational textbooks used in my program. In the back of one of those books, he wrote a couple of pages about recent developments in the field, and introduced Internal Family Systems. It made so much sense to me. I just took to it immediately.
Shortly after I graduated, his first book on IFS came out. I had just moved to Oregon and I quickly ordered, read, and devoured the book. I couldn’t wait to learn more. There's a part of me that's very tenacious, always has been, and I so decided to track him down.
I looked up Richard Schwartz at Northwestern University, dialed his number, and to my surprise, he actually answered the phone! I said, “I love your book and this model.” He told me about the first training they were holding in Chicago, and I thought about flying in for that. It wasn’t for several more years until he would have a program out in Seattle where I would attend.
I took that first Seattle program in 1998, and I’ve been involved with IFS ever since. I feel lucky that I contacted him, but mostly that I found IFS when I did at the start of my career and at a time when there was so much upheaval in my life. IFS was incredibly helpful to me on a personal level right when I needed it most.
What is it about IFS that speaks to you?
Mariel: I've studied other therapy approaches over the years - Sensorimotor and EMDR, to name a few. IFS is still the biggest framework I use, and I’ve found it to be the most empowering for all kinds of people. And the most hopeful.
What I love is that IFS is something Richard Schwartz discovered. It's not something he created — meaning, the internal system was already in existence inside of us. The natural multiplicity of the mind, as well as the body, mind, and spirit connection has been validated and described by explorers of the psyche, of course, but never as eloquently and systemically as you’ll find with IFS.
These ideas about “parts of us” are a lot more mainstream now, not quite so out there as they used to be. The discovery of how the mind works systemically with communication patterns between the parts, and a wise inherent Self that can heal and harmonize the parts - this is what remains unique to IFS.
Curious about IFS therapy? Visit our blog post to learn more:
Who or what has influenced you the most?
Mariel: Honestly, about 10 different parts of me have their own answers to that question! Given that, I guess I’d be safest to say that Richard Schwartz since he taught me how to honor all the parts. Oh my - what a predictable answer for this particular interview!
What is the goal of IFS?
Mariel: I think ultimately the hope we hold for everybody is that they’ll be able to live more authentically - and will love themselves deeply. But it’s not so easy. It’s a journey of discovering what it is that holds you back and how you can free your Self from that. The IFS process helps release these constraints by unburdening parts, which helps them shift into preferred roles. All parts want something good for us, and they can contribute in positive ways once they’ve unburdened and trust Self to be more available.
Many years ago, I was inspired by a client who asked what his inner system (of parts) might look like after doing this therapy. He just couldn’t imagine being anything other than stuck. I thought it was a really good question he was asking and it inspired me to begin working on the Unburdened Internal System mandala.
We all have inside of us, many, many capacities that when we feel more unified and harmonious it becomes just easier to live or easier to roll with the punches. Life can be challenging, and as we heal, we can encounter what comes with more choice and more effectiveness.
Can you become completely Unburdened?
Mariel: This is a question that defies answering. Personally, I believe that if we’re alive, there’s always more to discover about who we really are. I mean, is there really a limit to how much someone can evolve if their heart is genuinely in it? I know I’ve still got some stuff to work out -- and I’ve been at it a while!
I think there are absolutely moments and maybe even prolonged periods of time where we really feel free. And in those times, we may feel truly unburdened.
However, people aren't static. New things happen or echoes of old pain come up for different reasons or get re-triggered. I think there can be a trajectory of evolution, transformation, or progression if we stay in touch with what's happening internally and keep healing.
We're human, and I like to think there's plenty of room for mercy and understanding. We've got the capacity to continue to grow.
What part of your career are you especially proud of, that brings you the most joy when you look back at it?
Mariel: It’s been such a privilege to have been involved with IFS since the late 90s, and to come on board as a trainer in 2006. My role grew to include training internationally as well as nationally, and becoming the principal author of the new manual for IFS Level 1 trainings. That's something I feel good about because it was a huge undertaking. It’s nice to have it finally out there and put to good use.
A passion of mine that I’m most proud of, but haven’t fully accomplished yet, is something called Character Mapping. It's an interactive online program offering a psychological toolbox for actors, writers and directors. I created it for storytellers to help them build more authentic and compelling characters while using their craft to attend to their own psychological health.
Heath Ledger’s incredible talent and untimely death were an inspiration to me. I didn't know him, but his loss really hit me. I care an awful lot about the health of artists. I feel like storytellers give voice to many people who didn't know they even had a voice. As a fan and as a therapist, I wondered about the artists who write or perform characters that are deeply troubled. Were they getting the support they needed? How were their parts impacted?
When I discovered there was a gaping hole about character psychology in the literary and performing arts, a lightbulb went off. The Character Mapping curriculum pulls together the inner and outer lives of a character: their societal roles, biology, power dynamics, attachment, the DSM, etc. And of course, their rich inner life of parts. It’s so cool to see how mapping a character with this system benefits both the story and the teller. It’s a ton of fun.
In many ways, I feel like my life has come full circle because Character Mapping has brought me and my work as a therapist and trainer back into the entertainment world.
What led you to co-found the IFS Telehealth Collective?
Mariel: A big part of my life is providing IFS consultation to therapists. When the pandemic hit, I felt renewed and reinvigorated in this profession. It was such a helpless time, and it felt good to support my fellow clinicians. When Marcella Cox brought the idea to me it seemed like an idea whose time had come.
Working with clinicians to help them care for themselves and deliver better services for their clients is super important to me. With COVID, social justice issues, and all the political unrest, nobody is exempt from stress. Clinicians are unsung heroes facing their own challenges while helping others. I’m glad to be able to help in whatever way I can.
Therapists work solo most of the time, and while in IFS there are some regional groups, how often can they really get together? We need the type of community that IFS-TC provides for our clinicians. I'm hopeful that we can help meet some of the growing demand for IFS. It’s such an empowering model and our world sorely needs healing.
What advice would you give to a younger version of yourself?
Mariel: It depends on which younger version we’re talking about! I could have an answer for any number of parts at different times in my life. But I guess some simple encouragement might be that I’m not broken and that it’s really OK to feel all my feelings.
Early in my IFS training, I had a lot of crises in my family: a divorce and a remarkable string of losses one right after the other that went on for several years. Because I had learned how to tend to my inner world through IFS, I gained a kind of confidence about how to deal with complex pain. It was a relief to know that it’s not all darkness inside even when it felt like it. I would want my sensitive younger parts to remember that..
I'm very grateful. I've been very fortunate with a lot of privilege simply because I’m from the dominant white culture. But whenever something comes my way and really trips me up and I feel a lot of pain, it’s a truly humbling experience. Times like that have taught me the most, in no small part thanks to IFS.
Everybody has challenges. And sometimes they don't know where the support is going to come from. If we can slow down enough, we can open to the support that's available to us, especially from within.
If you’re interested in IFS therapy, and live in California, New York, Florida, Massachusetts, Oregon and Michigan fill out the contact form on our website to get connected with a clinician in your state.
If you’re a clinician trained in IFS therapy, and would like to the opportunity to see clients interested in IFS, and have regular consultation with a lead trainer like Mariel Pastor, contact us today to learn about joining the collective!
